Comments on: Identity - noun and verb http://wandreilagh.org/2007/04/identity-noun-and-verb.html The verbal ramblings of Gavin White. Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:04:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Cameron http://wandreilagh.org/2007/04/identity-noun-and-verb.html#comment-8269 Cameron Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:16:15 +0000 http://wandreilagh.org/2007/04/identity-noun-and-verb.html#comment-8269 Um, this is rather abstract. On a re-read, how could anything (e.g. self-admiration) make one MORE like oneself? Unless you meant it makes one more like those things that are being admired in oneself. It *seems* that we sidle up to attractive characteristics in ourselves and in others but clearly our behavior is determined by broad factors unrelated to intent. Denial, as a psychological term, does not mean moving away to me, it means covering up. And that will not rid the self of that concept. Acceptance and conscious choice in a different direction would be to move away from something, contrasted with denying that thing, which leaves it intact. Further replies by email please. Um, this is rather abstract. On a re-read, how could anything (e.g. self-admiration) make one MORE like oneself? Unless you meant it makes one more like those things that are being admired in oneself.

It *seems* that we sidle up to attractive characteristics in ourselves and in others but clearly our behavior is determined by broad factors unrelated to intent.

Denial, as a psychological term, does not mean moving away to me, it means covering up. And that will not rid the self of that concept. Acceptance and conscious choice in a different direction would be to move away from something, contrasted with denying that thing, which leaves it intact. Further replies by email please.

]]> By: Gavin http://wandreilagh.org/2007/04/identity-noun-and-verb.html#comment-8196 Gavin Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:25:57 +0000 http://wandreilagh.org/2007/04/identity-noun-and-verb.html#comment-8196 Tom: you point out an important distinction, and I would say both yes and no – I am thinking exactly of the appreciation or denial of existing attributes, but I don't consider emotions to be "attributes of self" – they are sensations, or attributes of experience, designed to provide information, and when they are denied they get louder (like any good feedback system). Cameron: doesn't the admiration narrow the gap anyway? Isn't that moment of giving up the end of admiration and the beginning of denial? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying about denial, but it seems like you're agreeing here. And in general: I may have been unclear about the bit on denial – I was thinking more about denying one's values or desires, which makes one less like oneself, rather than of falsely denying engagement in specific behaviors or ignoring the existence of specific basic attributes of the physical world, which both seem more like self-deception than self-denial. Tom: you point out an important distinction, and I would say both yes and no – I am thinking exactly of the appreciation or denial of existing attributes, but I don’t consider emotions to be “attributes of self” – they are sensations, or attributes of experience, designed to provide information, and when they are denied they get louder (like any good feedback system).

Cameron: doesn’t the admiration narrow the gap anyway? Isn’t that moment of giving up the end of admiration and the beginning of denial? Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying about denial, but it seems like you’re agreeing here.

And in general: I may have been unclear about the bit on denial – I was thinking more about denying one’s values or desires, which makes one less like oneself, rather than of falsely denying engagement in specific behaviors or ignoring the existence of specific basic attributes of the physical world, which both seem more like self-deception than self-denial.

]]> By: Cameron http://wandreilagh.org/2007/04/identity-noun-and-verb.html#comment-8152 Cameron Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:15:31 +0000 http://wandreilagh.org/2007/04/identity-noun-and-verb.html#comment-8152 Hey Gavin, just wondering why you're hosting the karma patrol roster from 2002... strange thing to come up when one searches for my name. but to not be a total troll, about that post... I think you oversimplify. In some cases, admiring something does not lessen the space between subject and object: indeed, sometimes people overestimate the gap and give up w/o trying. In the same vein, denying something delays the harmony of self with the desired concept. I admire strength, purpose, flexibility, effectiveness, moral stands, and compassion. I identify with nerds, the forceful, the effective, the conflicted, and those in motion. Hey Gavin, just wondering why you’re hosting the karma patrol roster from 2002… strange thing to come up when one searches for my name.

but to not be a total troll, about that post…

I think you oversimplify. In some cases, admiring something does not lessen the space between subject and object: indeed, sometimes people overestimate the gap and give up w/o trying. In the same vein, denying something delays the harmony of self with the desired concept.

I admire strength, purpose, flexibility, effectiveness, moral stands, and compassion. I identify with nerds, the forceful, the effective, the conflicted, and those in motion.

]]> By: Tom Cox http://wandreilagh.org/2007/04/identity-noun-and-verb.html#comment-7868 Tom Cox Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:01:23 +0000 http://wandreilagh.org/2007/04/identity-noun-and-verb.html#comment-7868 I'm not sure I agree on all of that - I think self-denial can actually make you MORE like the thing you dislike, at least if you are denying the disliked thing. As in, I deny I'm angry, and thus get more angry - my denial prevents me from facing and handling the anger. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding - I may be thinking of "denial of an existing attribute of self" when you may be thinking some other sort of denial. -Tom I’m not sure I agree on all of that - I think self-denial can actually make you MORE like the thing you dislike, at least if you are denying the disliked thing. As in, I deny I’m angry, and thus get more angry - my denial prevents me from facing and handling the anger.

Or maybe I’m misunderstanding - I may be thinking of “denial of an existing attribute of self” when you may be thinking some other sort of denial.

-Tom

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